LDS DIVORCED MEN SURVEY, Part 7

Over the major part of 2012 and 2013, and now 2014, divorced members of the LDS faith participated in a multi-national survey. Respondents included members residing in the U.S., Europe, the British Isles, New Zealand, and Canada, the majority of input coming from Utah, California, and Idaho. This is part seven of the survey for LDS Divorced Men.

                                     PART SEVEN

                              QUESTIONS 43-47

43. How could your friends and ward members have served you better while you were going through this trial? 

1. Phone calls, texts, emails, regular check ups...................................35.16%

2. Personal visits, lunch/dinner together, time spent together..............38.28%

3. A listening ear.................................................................................40.63%

4. Going with you to court, attorney meetings.........................................78%

5. Other................................................................................................43.75%

COMMENTS:

A MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:        "I don't need them to get through this."

"They could not have. I did not want anyone involved." "It is not their responsibility to fix me." "I didn't seek or need help."

"There was nothing I required that was not handled. I wouldn't have changed anything." "I dont think that ward members should get involved." "the majority of them would be unable to help as they have no experiences similar." "no one wanted to take sides, I understand." "left me the **** alone." "None of their business." "Nothing."

A MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:        "Encourage reconciliation"

"I begged the Bishop to counsel her against the divorce. He would not. Church counselors also recommended her divorce me against the Stake President's wishes. I was very dispointed that few if any members counseled my wife against leaving. Even the First Presidency issued a Temple cancellation against my will when I had kept my covenants.It was a very negative experience from which I still suffer spiritually, emotionally and financially." "Encourage reconciliation, rather than helping Satan divide and separate." "i think ward members could have been more active to influence her for good." 

A MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:         "Be true friends."

"I feel my friends (except one) pretty much abandoned me." "Love that God gives." "Oh, I dunno, maybe stuck up for me when it was apparent that I was being censured." "anything at all would have been nice." "Ward members could have helped by expressing some level of recognition that I surely was hurting." ""be friendly and not make me talk about it." "Try to treat me like I was human.""My new ward was great, several guys became close friends, especially thru basketball practices." ""For my fellow brethren of the Ward, a simple arm around my shoulder with a simple "how are you? I think about you often, if you need anything call me." Instead, I felt that most people avoided me as if they might catch the "divorce bug."

A MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:         "Not gossiped" 

"Not gossip about my divorce." "Allowing the courts to determine the truth of allegations and not judging based on rumor and smear campaign." "lose the listening ear. stay out of the divorce issue and let the couple work it out rather than hear half the story and pass judgement." "reserve judgement- 'In the quiet heart is hidden, sorrow that the eye can't see'"

Gossip always gets back to the person being talked about. By then it is quite the story. 

MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:         "They were great"

"I did have some incredible friends I found during this process. They were there often when I needed them and didn't pry too hard." "they did great." "they were perfect as is." "My friends were all very supportive and encouraging." "nothing they were great." "I could not have asked for better support." "they bent over backwards, couldn't have asked for more." 

A MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:         "Other"

"babysitting." "Bishop had my Xwife and girls over for dinner multiple times, girls took this to mean he supported their mom only. They have no idea why we divorced." "there could have been home teachers, but I guess my home teacher was the Bishop." "Was left to my own means. My ex was over the top brought food and given emotional support and she was the abuser.. the victims were left to fend for themselves." "Stay in touch even after I had to move." "I could have used a little more support but I should have asked for more help I can't expect them to know what I was going through with out me saying something."   

Ward members and friends often don't know how to handle those going through divorce.

44. Did the final divorce settlement reflect the best interest, safety, financial stability of the children?

1. Yes....................................................................................58.59%

2. No.....................................................................................20.31%

3. Not applicable...................................................................21.09%

45. How could your bishop have served you better? 

COMMENTS: 

MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:             "Showed support by........"

"Said hello." "Less bias toward women. Woman are just as evil and selfish, if not MORE so, than men. LDS Church leaders and members are out of touch with the reality of how powerful the influence is that Satan has over women to destroy innocent little children families and to weaponize children used as a tool of punishment in divorce." "Having compassion." "He could have been more involved... He was so clearly out of his element/comfort zone... Too bad, as he lived just down the street and drove by multiple times a day." "I felt he did not want to hear what I had to say because we met one time and it was brief. He never followed up with me after initial visit." "Be much more forgiving on repentance issues." "Called. Talked to me. Offered ways to stay in the church. After my divorce they still know nothing about how to help a divorced member of the church." "More proactive by pulling me in for check ups rather than relying on me to set up those appointments." "Somehow been more in tune, prayerful about us....if he had discreetly called me in for an interview to find out how things were...offer counseling, call her in separately to hear her side..." "Being there for me." "Not treat me like a leper." "He could have called me occasionally." "actually listened to both sides of the story and looked at the evidence, rather than the lies of my ex." "by being firm." "My Bishop barely acknowledged me when I told him my wife left and was not coming back." "More involvement with us as a couple." "He remained very aloof during the whole process - I would have appreciated some direct emotional and spiritual support." "Make the stake president see me to finish my recommend." "Honesty, integrity, Joint assistance." "Just stayed neutral. I must be honest and admit that I expected his support because I was active, had calling and my wife had new "girlfriend". He gave her more support and backing then me to keep her active and keep her very large family all in our ward happy. He told me that he knew I have strong testimony and he needed to support her. When I bring up her girlfriend, he says he just doesn't know what to do." "might have followed up; could have used more discretion." "Been there ...took a interest in me...It was like I was dropped off at the corner and was told you're on your own kid...good luck and they vanished." "He could have believed me, that abuse was taking place, and ordered my ex to account for her lies. He would not watch or listen to audio and video files of alleged abuse of me and the children.. this allowed her time to continue her trappings and to make life difficult. Had several bishops who all faltered. One found us a therapist after my pleadings, he convinced me not to involve police and not to have my wife sent to jail one night. I wish I would not have headed his advice as it would have helped her get help if she had a police record. One bishop kept calling us in to visit, he enabled patterns of abuse... I told him to stop wasting his compassionate time on us as we needed professional help.. he tried too hard, and had he told my ex to pull up her big girl panties and to comply with the law, and to get treatment, things might have been different with the outcome, but he was sucked into her stories... a lie told often enough is often taken as truth.. this is what happened to very sound men.. now, they see me as full time dad, and pretty much leave me to myself.. no one has come up to me and offered support, its been 5 years, many lonely times, many financially devoid times.. .37 cents in a bank account several years ago, no heat in my house, no oil for cooking, lots of tortillas and ramens.. while my ex wife was eating from the Bishops Storehouse." "He could have done more to help after I was forced out of the home by a fraudulently obtained protective order." "I don't recall my bishop even recognizing that the divorce was taking place. Appropriate counseling with my spouse would make me feel better, but likely not changed things. Some support... or at least acknowledgement... would have helped. His attitude seemed to be 'whatever,'" "He did his best, after the split to take care of my ex. I would have liked a bit more help before everything went south." "He could have been intellectually, ethically and spiritually honest, could have shown interest in the kids and me, could have allowed me to continue to serve, could have opted to not run smack on me, could have made at least a fraction of the effort to be involved in the kids and my situation as he did towards my ex." "Discernment. D&C 10:37." "Seriously anything at all would have helped." "could have been inspired to recognize her lies and then help me out. Even after he realized he was wrong there was no apology or help." "By not taking sides publicly or privately. By not condoning the 'no fault' divorce." "My ex-wife is very persuasive, he could have at least tried to hear both sides." "PROVIDE SOME KIND OF SUPPORT GROUP." "

SECOND MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:             "He did all he could"

"He did all he could!!" "Could not have helped better, he was great." "My Bishop could not have served me better. Again, he made certain I received both my Patriarchal Blessing AND Endowment. He listened to me, counseled me and hired me as, at the time, his only full time/salaried employee. I am in my 5th year of employment and he treats me like gold." "Nope. He did his best." "He was okay with his response." "He did what he needed and I wouldn't change anything." "I feel he gave me good counsel the day I informed him of my divorce being final, and I do not fault him for anything. I felt as though he was the only person in my ward who cared about me or even knew who I was." "My bishop was awesome. I don't think there is anything he could have done to serve me better than he did." "He did great !" "He did his best." "He was great and very comforting." "He was very good. Supportive and checked on me and my kids all the time." "He did more than expected." "My Bishop was the ONLY one who helped me through this ordeal." "He was great when I asked for help but I probably did not ask for enough support." "My Bishop served me very well." "He was the best help (besides my home teacher)," "I think my bishops were supportive as they listened to me and don't know what else they could have done outside of the counsel they gave since individual agency is involved." "Our previous Bishop was there to help wherever he could. It was all done and finished before I knew, nothing more he could do." "He did great." "He was amazing," 

THE FATHER OF THE WARD

THIRD MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:             "He could have counseled us to......" 

"He could have counseled against a frivolous and unnecessary divorce." "He should have told her to get rid of EVERYTHING that was coming between us." "Got more involved when he heard we were struggling. I didn't want to push her so I allowed her to choose how it was handled. But if this really was meant to be or as God knew it would perhaps he was inspired not to." "Not been so one sided...encouraged reconciliation rather than pushing for divorce. I don't think he knew what to do." "Could have been more "firm" with my ex on the consequences of the divorce." "Tried to talk her out of the divorce, but he said he couldn't really offer any advice. Must be a legal stance the church takes now." "he was a Psychologist, Marriage coun. He made every effort to listen to lies and did not try to help us stay together, just the opposite!" "He could have sent us to counseling, early on!!!!." "

FOURTH MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:             "I did not want his involvement" 

"He wasn't involved. It was my choice to leave him out of it." "I didn't ask for help" "I think he did alright but im not the kind of person who would want him to get involved." "HE HAD ENOUGH ON HIS PLATE, A LOT WAS GOING ON IN THE WARD AT THAT TIME SO I DID NOT INVOLVE HIM." "I have been in the bishopric before and know that they are limited in what they can do. I did not want to burden him." "I hoped to keep the ward out of the situation as much as possible." "I'm not as convincing as my wife, no matter what I said, he would take her side. So I did not even try." "He is a busy guy, I don't know what he could do to fix this many years of problems, or alter personalities or poor decisions."  

FIFTH MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:             "Other......."

"I truly feel sorry for the man. He is still in over his head. He has lied to the stake leadership about his and his wife's actions. Even though I have followed his counsel he was hostile and only saw things through his eyes. Empathy or understanding are devoid in this mans' character. Even my LDS therapist after a lengthy conversation with him related that she had little hope of me being able to work with him due to his attitude." "Had church court on her." "Replace relief society leadership." "By holding a court for my wife, she admitted to having a affair with a married man but because her family sorta hold status in that ward he was of the opinion he didnt want to get involved in a personal matter and left it at that." "I was disappointed in how little my thoughts, problems, and trials mattered within the context of my marriage relationship once my es told our Bishop she was out. It was like talking to a brick wall trying to coordinate anything regarding her court or our family/custody issues. I was told basically, "Your marriage means nothing now that she's thrown it away." "Did not care to involve him. Current Bishop supports the current relationship because my ex-wife refuses to go to church since I have remarried a member in the same ward." " Did not talk to them nor did they ask to talk to me." "OUR BISHOP AND ONE OF HIS COUNSELORS VISITED US AT OUR HOME & SAID HE'D HEARD WE WERE GETTING DIVORCED. HE THOUGHT ABOUT IT FOR A MINUTE AND TOLD US THAT IF WE NEEDED ANYTHING TO LET HIM KNOW. THAT WAS IT." " 

46. How could your ward leaders have served you better, including your Home Teachers, Elders or High Priest's Quorums? 

FIRST MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:                           "Fellowshipping/Support" 

"I am alone at home. Only when people need me to help do they contact me." "They offered to help, but I did not accept. They still offer." "Home Teaching visits, invite to activities / hang out." "prayers," "said hello," "Visited more." "Not many if any know how to work with older people who get divorced... Since the Church is so family oriented, there really is no information or experience on how to deal with us, except from us, and no one is asking us to talk/relate with others about this..." "Sent home teachers regularly." "Visit." "Extend an invitation to talk in person one-on-one privately and just tell me that even though it sucks right now you are still part of this ward, we will look after your kids when your not here. Still keep me in the loop with regards to children's ward activities," "Kept me busier," "They could have shown up...," "they all backed away and I got no support from them," "Any show of support would be helpful. No home teachers or anything offered help while I'm trying to fix up and pack up a whole house that was left in a mess when the ex and kids moved out leaving almost everything." "How does no one ever remember my name or that I'm a ward member?" "Home teachers were not very involved." "People going through divorce need solid Home Teachers who visit regularly. And I would add, the HTs need to be consistent not changing every month. I got tired of telling each new set of HTs what was going on. This might have been one reason I pulled away from the church for a time." "More interest in our well being." "They were not inormed on my end." "visits," "I don't know that they could have - aside from being spiritually in tune enough to detect that something was wrong." "Been there for me," "They could have let me know that they knew I existed. I feel I slipped between the cracks because nobody even attempted to contact me or fellowship me after my divorce." "Been there for me," "They all disappeared." "Introduced themselves. Offer to sit with me in church." "

SECOND MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:                                  "Counseled...."

"They could have counseled against a frivolous and unnecessary divorce." "Elders Quorum pres was spot on. Unfortunately, it wasn't the something the ex was going to listen to." "Training," "I wish there was some kind of support group for those of us in the ward/stake who are going through or have gone through divorce. It is very lonely." "It would help to have someone who can give counsel on how to get through a divorce with the least amount of damage to the family." "Is there really no training or support materials or persons for those wading through divorce?" "It would have helped to have been given strong and wise Home Teachers that would stay with us through the whole ordeal and give extra support where needed." 

THIRD MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:                                  "Not Judge"

"Less bias toward women. Woman are just as evil and selfish, if not MORE so, than men. LDS Church leaders and members are out of touch with the reality of how powerful the influence is that Satan has over women to destroy innocent little children families and to weaponize children used as a tool of punishment in divorce." "Less judgmental. More Christlike," "Under the volitility of the situation they did the best they could. Home teachers should be aware before blessing the children that if the father is worthy then he should be the one giving them a blessing. Except in cases of emergency of course." " by not taking sides." "When leaders would ask for information, it was usually to gossip instead of to support and guide." "They can never have all of the information, so they just need to be supportive to both sides."   

FOURTH MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:                               "Leave things alone" 

"left me alone," "Stay out of the way," "They couldn't. It really should not be any of their business. This is a personal thing." "If they can't be helpful, and only make things worse, just stay away and not pretend to care." "Don't make things worse than they already are." "Let me have some time to get through this," " Don't do anything if you are just going to treat me like I have the plague" "There is not a lot they can do but smile, give a hug, some encouragement, and then keep us in their prayers while we get through it as best we can." 

FIFTH MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:                                "They were great"
"They did the best they could," "they did great," "I wouldn't change anything." "My leaders and home teachers did an excellent job. I am very thankful for my Ward Family." "They did well," "They asked me what I needed....less callings, or more....less visits or more.....and they respected that and followed through. Everyone needs differently, so just ask and find out what is the best way to show support, and then do it." "They rallied around me and my family, It helped a LOT!" 

Dear Henry, Just a note to let you know you are in our prayers. 

47. What methods did you use for surviving the divorce?

FIRST MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:              "I clung to the Gospel"   

"The Lord and following his commandments and precepts." "faith, trust in God!!!!" "Attend church regularly," "scripture reading, fasting, prayer, pondering, uplifting music, etc." "Temple. Went monthly until I felt like Heavenly Father was not there anymore." "The "Bishop's 5." Daily prayer, Scripture study, Regular Church Attendance, Pay full Tithe and Fast Offering, Go to the Temple." "Lots of prayer," "prayer, fasting," "I studied and prayed a lot." "Prayer," "Lots of prayer, temple attendance," "I pray, read scriptures," "I read the scriptures more to try to fill in the time," "Prayer, temple attendance," "Prayer! It saved my life!!!" "stay strong in the Church, attend the temple at least weekly," "Prayer, contemplation," "I prayed a lot, and just went on with my life working at lot, but it still took me years to get over it." "Prayer, lots of prayer," "gospel teachings," "Prayer, put former wife's name in Temple." "Living within means, staying close to gospel." "Same I use at any other time; prayer, introspection, seeking out wisdom from people I trust." "prayer and a lot of personal reflection" "getting out to church and church social events." "My testimony." "Cried alot, prayed a lot," "GOD," "volunteering at the Temple." "I stuck to the church and did my best at getting by each new day." "maintained againts all odds. I did all tht I should have done, it was not me that made the wrong choice to break the Cov." "gospel," "temple," "prayer, patience."

SECOND MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:              "New Relationships/'Single's Programs"   

"Found a girl friend," "Internet dating." "Met some new friends. Ones I could trust that wouldn't take sides. Not even mine. I don't think that ever helps you to be honest." "I moved far away to a place I knew no one. I got new friends and built my own support," "With out the Facebook groups I have been involved in I would not be active in the church. I know no one in my stake." "Friends," "dated," "flirting on dating sites (after divorce)," "try to make good friends with good values." "Other active single friends and staying busy with them." "Immediately started dating," "I also made some new friends." "Stay active in social settings," "Getting out in public settings with other singles," "I became an active dater, especially online, they became the listening ear that I did not have anywhere else except from my Bishop," "Developed a support network of singles," "institute,"

THIRD MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:              "Clung to old relationships, friends/family"

"Family, friends, exercise, " "Shared what I was going through." "Good council especially from other divorced people," "Friends," "I had to seek out hobbies with friends to 'escape' the reality of my life at the time. These escapes were much needed reprieves from the stress and constant thoughts of failure." "talking with friends/family." "family activities." "closer relationship with my mother," "Going out with friends," " visit family after I told them what happened." "Support of friends and family was the best. " "talking to my close friends, kept busy," "seeking out wisdom from people I trust." "One breath at a time...and talk to my mother lots." "Friends and Family," "Friendships." "I was living in the midwest at the time of the divorce. I moved back to Utah where I had nearby family for support." "friends , family, random church members in various states," "When not depressed, visited with friends, stayed busy and served others." "Party with friends,"

A MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:             "I drowned myself in my work" 

"Just putting more time and effort into work and serving others." "Worked," "got a 2nd job to occupy myself." "kept busy/service" "hard work," "just went on with my life working at lot." "busied myself with work," "i kept busy and let time heal," "Worked and ignored it." "Finishing school, concentrating on work," "Focused on the kids and work, still doing that." "I was too busy working and raising my kids to think about it" "Worked harder and lots of emotional pain to deal with," "Work..." "I continued to wake up, go to work, work out, eat cereal....." "

A MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:             "Exercise/recreational activities"

"I started going to a gym, and other hobbies." "I played basketball," "Worked at a hobby during a 2 year separation." "tried exercise and fitness," "Exercise. Going to gym daily." " focus on health, exercise," "I started running again, working out,"

"Exercise and weight loss," "exercise," "exercise more to help fill more of my time." "work out," "Dancing," "I continued to wake up,  work out....." "Physical activity," "Bike riding, exercising," "Long distance running," 

A MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:   "Started developing new hobbies/past-times/projects/goals"  

"other hobbies." "Hobby," "books, internet," "worked on my house once I moved back in," "I wrote a list of things I wanted to improve in myself and worked towards achieving those things." "I had to seek out hobbies with friends to "escape" the reality of my life at the time. These escapes were much needed reprieves from the stress and constant thoughts of failure." "Read books or went online to obtain any information on the topic." "time on internet studying current events," "Went back to school," "played video games," "busied myself with hobbies," "stayed busy," "I Went back to school," "

Lot's of fishing, playing in a rock band and playing pool!"

Divorce is one of the toughest trials for children. They will need extra love and assurance. 

A MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:               "Put my focus on the kids" 

"I took care of my girls," "focus on kids." "spent every minute I could with my child." "Did my best to be a good father." "Focus on my kids on the days they were with me and on improving myself when they weren't." "Focused on building stability and happiness for my children," "spending time with kids," "being a good father and getting on with my life." "busied myself with raising the kids," "I spent a lot of time with my kids, but I already was doing that before the divorce, but now they became the listening ear that I did not have anywhere else except from my Bishop." "Focused on the kids and work, still doing that." "

A MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:                "The unsuccessful approach"

"Dated a ton....but it didn't solve anything. I needed to face my problems and go through the process." "Illegal drugs." "fell back into despair after first attempt at dating post-divorce." "do you want an honest answer?....drink and lots of it." "I mostly just stayed in bed and slept a lot." "Denial, thinking she'd come back," "Alcohol," "Not very successful. I became and still am depressed." "Quiet tolerance of my wife's screaming at me, avoiding the situation, and alcohol."

A MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:                 "A change in perspective"

"I adopted a non-caring attitude." "Just move on." "I''m STILL trying to survive this RIDICULOUSLY CRAZY singles life!!" "I analyzed all the emotions I felt and determined which, if any, were 'guilt'. Any 'misdeeds' I apologized for. The rest is just the mourning of loss, loss of future dreams, etc." "I had to take a good look at myself and figure out how I had contributed to this marriage failure, and start doing things differently if I wanted a lasting relationship next time." "I started reading a lot of books to bring me to a higher place," "I guess I had taken the things that were most important to me for granted, so I tried to fix it, but it was too late. Next time I will do better." "I made a list of what I hoped for in my life the next time around. I saw this as a new beginning and wanted to map out a better approach this time around." 

A MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:                    "Counseling"

"therapy," "Professional help for 9 months," "therapy," "Honesty with myself. counseling. taking the time to heal rather than jumping back into a relationship." "a good councilor helped." "Seeing a professional counselor." "professional counseling," "counseling," "one day at a time, counseling," "Counseling," "counseling was a must," "Professional counseling was a must." "family counselor" "SEEING A THERAPIST," "Counseling saved my life." 

A MOST FREQUENT ANSWER:                      "Other"

"Sit on the front row, center, so I will not be in any family's spot, and will not have to be made sad by seeing all the families come in and sit together..." "letting go of past, forgiveness," "just general coping." "playing with my sister's cats, helping out my parents. I made a conscious decision the month after we separated, that I will NOT be one of those people, still bitter at their ex-spouse 10-20 years later...that has made all the difference. My ex and I have a working friendship now - or at least can deal with each other on friendly terms...I have accepted responsibility for my failings, and she has for hers (though she still doesn't see just how badly her issues affected me and damaged or marriage)" "just survived day to day," "I just dealt with it a day at a time until it was final," "One day at a time. Do not buy anything we did not need. Eat out rarely and dollar menu. Go to Salvation army or other charity for school clothes and Christmas presents," "lots of ice cream and movies," "try not to stay home alone." "just agreed to the Divorce and didnt fight it once I realized it was truly over," "A day at a time.." "one minute, one hour, one day--at a time," "I continued to wake up, go to work, work out, eat cereal....." "SAVING MONEY,  SPOKE TO MY BISHOP, JUST LET IT HURT AND SUFFER THROUGH IT TO THE END," "WORKED THROUGH IT TO THE END," "Music." "lots of loud music on the commute," "Listen to lots of motivational CD's. Tried to apply them but with reservations."

DIVORCE IS ONE OF THE MOST MADDENING OF LIFE'S EXPERIENCES